Talk: Effect on end skills quick reference

Guidelines for inclusion

After some consideration, I think this list needs a more detailed inclusion guideline. Even Reversal of Fortune could fall into this list. (i.e. RoF negates and heals when it ends prematurely, does nothing otherwise.) Similar thing with Divine Intervention, etc. They have almost identical style as Steady Stance (i.e. Steady Stance negates KD and gives a boon when it ends prematurely, does nothing otherwise). --Voidvector 17:51, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

If you don't get hit, RoF does nothing. Divine won't trigger if you don't almost-die. Aura of Thorns will cause bleeding, even if nobody is around to bleed. (At least, I would assume so. The animation goes off.) It's debatable, but.. --Shadowcrest 19:25, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Charging Strike's end effect won't trigger if you don't hit, Steady Stance's benefit won't trigger if you don't get hit by a knockdown skill. My point is the current list include some of skill with conditional end effects, but doesn't include all. Even RoF has conditional end effect, the end effect is healing, the condition is when you get hit in the duration. --Voidvector 21:05, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Sand Shards

I tried to add Sand Shards, since its been changed to do damage when ended, but must have been doing something wrong because I could not get it to display properly. --98.16.179.104 06:00, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with it, actually. What does not display properly for you? --- -- (contribs) (talk) 12:21, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Putrid Bile?

Putrid Bile's trigger is on the death of the inflicted, not the end of the spell's effects. However, we don't really have a quick reference for skills that trigger an effect on death. I would rather see PB on the list then not available on any list.  —Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 14:17, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

The list is fairly inconsistant anyways. It lists Shield Guardian and Charging Strike, but not Reversal of Fortune. Why? I don't know. SG and CS don't do anything if they end naturally, just like RoF. Putrid Bile has, in essence, the same clause/mechanic. "Putrid Bile (Shield Guardian) does its on end effect only if the target dies (blocks an attack), causing Putrid Bile (Shield Guardian) to end."

Note that Voidvector also brought this up in 2008. --Vipermagi 14:28, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

There should be a distinction between skills that end when their effect is triggered, and skill that trigger an effect when they end. Holy Veil will remove a hex when it ends, regardless of how it ends. RoF won't have any effect if it simply runs out the 8 second duration, the effect only occurs if it is triggered by damage (and the effect happens to include RoF ending). Even Wastrel's Worry isn't really "effect on end," because it has no effect if it ends prematurely - it's more "effect after full duration."

We should either create separate QRs or split this QR into subsections for these different mechanics (effect on end, end on effect, effect after full duration). —Dr Ishmael 14:45, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

Let's start with subdividing the existing QR. If it turns out that the distinction are meaty enough, then it's worth creating a new page (and dealing with all the pages that must be updated accordingly). Brain dump of titles:

• Effect after expiration = Effect when ending naturally = Effect when done ← probably the original concept for this QR
  • No effect unless (above)... ← the subset of skills that don't do anything if they end too soon (e.g. Wastrel's Worry) (arguably, a benefit-to-target in effect when ended)
• Effect when ended = Effect when ended by other = Effect when ended prematurely ← the skills that do interesting things if they don't expire naturally
  • Effect when target dies = Effect on death ← the subset in which death is the trigger (e.g. Putrid Bile)
• Ends on effect = Can be ended without removal = Ends early under certain situations = Can be ended early ← skills with effects that can be ended early w/o using a hex or condition removal (arguably the benefit-to-target subset of effect when ended) (e.g. some Me illusion skills)

 —Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:07, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

I added it when I was looking for skills like Icy Veins that trigger an effect upon death and since they both have the same mechanic I felt it could be here as well (I had to add the fields to the skill template).

The split and the types look good, if they turn up with sufficient skills in them. Amy Awien 19:34, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Here's my outline, with somewhat different wording:

• Effect on end
  • Effect only after full duration
• Effect when removed
• End on effect
• Effect and end on death

This may require some research into skills that don't specify if their effect still occurs when removed prematurely - I know we do have notes on at least a few skills about this, but I don't personally know how thoroughly this has been documented. —Dr Ishmael 19:36, July 25, 2010 (UTC)