I see that Karlos has removed all references to the White Mantle and Shining Blade. Since they are two of the most influential groups on the current history of Tyria, isn't it a bit unfair to not mention them? <LordBiro>/<Talk> 17:11, 12 Jul 2005 (EST)

This is a general description of humans and a brief summary of their 1300 year history. Yes, I would say both groups are fairly recent and insignificant in the grand scheme of things. They are both fairly important for the plot and the story of this speicifc edition of the game, but in the overall history of humans? I don't think so.
On the flip side, think of how we are going to say it? After the thre great kingdoms of humans were attacked by the Charr, Ascalon fell, Orr self-combusted and Kryta stood it's ground. Then refugees from Ascalon settled in Kryta and a group of them was recruited by the White Mantle to fight the undead and the Shining Blade only to find out that the White Mantle are the bad guys so they joined the Shinig Blade. In their quest to defeat the Mantle and their Mursaat masters they sided with Vizier Khilbron who tricked everyone to try and concquer Tyria but that same group of humans defeated him.
I am sorry but there is a big divide between the story of Ascalon and the Charr invasion and the other story about the white mantle and the shinig blade. --Karlos 18:56, 12 Jul 2005 (EST)
I'm not saying we shouldn't have the history provided, that is beneficial to the article, but consider Category:Humans, the majority of the category speaks of Ascalon, White Mantle and Shining Blade, perhaps in the thousands of years of history you might think the White Mantle are of little importance, but as far as the game is concerned they are of extreme importance. The majority of the plot revolves around them!! lol... You don't have to even include them in the plot like that, before your edit it just said: "Tyrian Humans generally associate themselves with one of three factions, Ascalon, the White Mantle or the Shining Blade." I just wanted to know why you thought this should be removed? It's a fact about the world in which the game is set. <LordBiro>/<Talk> 20:11, 12 Jul 2005 (EST)
Therein lies the whole point. I do not believe Tyrian humans are divided into Ascalonians and White Mantle and Shinig Blade. The way I experienced the game, Tyrian humans were divided into Ascalonians and Krytans. That's really it. Now, within Kryta there is a clash between the governing body (the White Mantle) and the rebels. But I would say most of the people in Kryta themselves were neither. --Karlos 05:13, 13 Jul 2005 (EST)
Well that's fair enough, but you must admit that the White Mantle and the Shining Blade are important human groups in the game. You might equally say the Deldrimor and the Stone Summit are both just Dwarves who are having a bit of a falling out, and omit mention of both groups ;P <LordBiro>/<Talk> 09:10, 13 Jul 2005 (EST)
I already admitted that in my first response: They are both fairly important for the plot and the story of this speicifc edition of the game. I just picture that in GuildWars II you'd be fighting the Charr again, or exploring the ruins of Orr or helping the royal family of Kryta oust the White Mantle, remember The Lost Princess quest? The Deldrimor Dwarves and the Stone Summit are "nations" of Dwarves, similar to Krytans, Ascalons and Orrians. But I digress. --Karlos 10:52, 13 Jul 2005 (EST)
That does make sense Karlos, with the White Mantle ruined and the Shining Blade defunct there probably won't be in the next chapter, but we don't know that. I would be satisfied with a line such as "During the Flameseeker Prophecies the people of Kryta are ruled by the White Mantle. A small group of rebels seek to oust the Mantle, and they are the Shining Blade." What do you think? <LordBiro>/<Talk> 21:59, 13 Jul 2005 (EST)
Since no one has disagreed I'm going to add it. <LordBiro>/<Talk> 22:31, 17 Jul 2005 (EST)
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