Will strengths' armor penetration and this skills armor penetration be added together or will it be like penetrating blow?

Since this lasts 10s and disables skills for 10s, strength's AP won't even get used. -- 02:59, 31 March 2006 (CST)
Huh? Skuld Monk-icon-small 22:04, 10 April 2006 (CDT)
Strength. -- 22:54, 10 April 2006 (CDT)
Morale Boost -PanSola 23:25, 10 April 2006 (CDT)
Galen Trask Skuld Monk-icon-small 00:14, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
| Chuiu 20:23, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Morale Boost can recharge a skill during the 10s disable period, so it is possible to for armor penetration of Strenth to happen with Primal Rage's effect. I have no clue what Galen Trask has to do with anything. -PanSola 00:00, 13 April 2006 (CDT)

 :D Skuld Monk-icon-small 05:16, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
I would've said Killroy with his wierd party buff if anything, that might make the skills recharge before the 10 seconds, that or the Vizier.--Apocrypha 23:35, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

When I asked if strengths AP and Primal rage's AP will be added together I literally meant Strength and Primal Rage...I have no idea how anyone could have read into that differently.-OaS

And I had meant that since strength only applies AP to attack skills and not normal hits, it's irrelevant. Pan pointed out morale boosts could "unblackout" you to let you use skills. Skuld remained confused. -- 12:38, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
Chances are your not going to get many moral boosts under this spell (+if you do, the skill only lasts 10 seconds, so its pretty pointless) to recharge skills with.Banito 04:01, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

I don't see this skill having a use. in PvP you lose all kind of speed bonus, so you wont be able to hit a moving target you wont be able to knock it down either since your skills are disabled. you also wont gain adrenalin due to your disabled skills, In PvE you lose all your skills, so no self-heal. no interrupting, knockdown, nothing. ~Viruzzz


Is this a Shout or a Stance? Reason I ask is the skill box says Elite Elite. If you know, please make the correction or post here and I or someone will make it. --Gares Redstorm 14:01, 15 May 2006 (CDT)

Yes, it wil probably will be a shout... "Primal Rage!" --Σιγμα </font> Omigod 16:12, 8 March 2007 (CST)
It's a Stance, go look at the priest of balthazar
Actually it was sarcastic, but that doens't work on I-net. --Σιγμα </font> Omigod 09:26, 9 March 2007 (CST)
Well, I thought it was funny... -- 11:21, 26 August 2007 (CDT)

Armor Penetration

It stacks with AP mods on weapons so you can do 20% + 20% armor penetration on normal hits using this stance. I'm dealing 115 damage with a hammer without using a single attack skill using this stance to AL 60 targets or 93 damage very often when only getting the effects of one 20% AP mod and a critical hit. Chuiu Me Icon(T/C) 18:53, 24 May 2006 (CDT)

And if you drop Judge Insight on top, does that mean you get 60% AP? Ouch... --Theeth Assassin-icon-small (talk) 16:49, 10 June 2006 (CDT)
don't +Penetration modifiers stack multiplicatively? so it would be 80%*80%*80%=48% and change? --Honorable Sarah Honorable Icon 16:11, 3 July 2006 (CDT)
Apparantly not... I did a little test before, and think the results were negative. Not sure, maybe test it again after the event. In any case, sundering is proven to suck, so I wouldn't bother. Judge's Insight is a goos skill though, question is whether you have the energy to keep it up, and enough points in smiting or other attributes to still have a good warrior. Silk Weaker 04:22, 28 July 2006 (CDT)
sounds like a good weekend project ;) --Honorable Sarah Honorable Icon 13:15, 30 July 2006 (CDT)


I bet a W/A could take on luxon turtles with just this and way of perfection :) — Skuld 07:26, 8 August 2006 (CDT)

"Use Primal Rage with high-critical-damage weapons such as axes, hammers, scythes, bows and spears." spears? last time i checked spears had low critical hit damage.--Coloneh RIPColoneh 17:02, 22 November 2006 (CST)

Spears do 14-27 as compared to the bows at 15-28. Still kind of weak compared to critical ranges for axes and the other melees, but compared to it's ranged counterparts, spears do similar damage at a much faster rate.Zaboomafoo 04:45, 14 December 2006 (CST)


"The skill name probably refers to the old arcade game made by Atari called "Primal Rage", thus the skill's art including a leopard." - Am I missing something? What does a leopard have to do with that game in any way, shape, or form? And besides, the head of the thing in the icon sure looks like a wolf to me... I don't see a leopard at all. Capcom 03:56, 11 December 2006 (CST)

I concur, Primal Rage had dinosaurs battling each other.

Definately not a wolf --VSL 18:36, 7 January 2007 (CST)

More like a man with a hyena head Gamerloin

I think the word "primal rage" is too generic to be a sign it's a reference to that game. Unless there's something else indicating that, I think a more likely explanation is that it's a coincidence. -- 04:26, 7 March 2007 (CST)

I disagree, on the grounds that since there are many clear, intentional pop culture references (even some obscura such as "Make Your Time!"), and given that nearly all of the Inscriptions are direct pop culture references, we can conclude that this Skill, at the least, is very likely a pop culture reference. The notion that it is the name of the Atari game verbatim seems to add validity to this conclusion. GrammarNazi 16:03, 8 March 2007 (CST)
"Make your time" isn't obscure. :) Shido 16:37, 8 March 2007 (CST)
Anybody outside the esoteric gaming culture would just think you were bad at English :p GrammarNazi 16:44, 8 March 2007 (CST)

The picture of the guy looks like a messed up Charr to me. O.o - -Sora267Spiteful Spirit 16:46, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

My first impression is it's a gnoll [1]. Though of course GW doesn't have gnolls - but it's just highlighting the "animallike" - aka primal, concept behind the skill. -- 19:08, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Strength Armor Penetration only applies to Attack Skills. (EDIT: Thus making this skill largely useless for many Warriors.)

As the title suggests, and has been stated above, the Strength AP bonus only applies to Attack Skills. One is much better off training in their weapon of choice's attribute in conjunction with this skill. I just wanted to reiterate that for people who didn't want to read the Strength article linked above. GrammarNazi 00:38, 27 January 2007 (CST)

It doesn't matter, as since this gives you a higher AP than Strength will, it will override Strength for Attack Skills, as Strength and other base +AP like Primal Rage only takes the highest base AP into effect. DarkNecrid 23:24, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
Wanted to add that this makes Primal Rage very much without a solid use.GrammarNazi 12:52, 7 March 2007 (CST)

This needs a LAME tag :)

I added something similar a few months back but it got reverted :( People dont seem to mind lame templates tho :D

I agree. "For 10 seconds, you can't use skills, you can't gain any adrenaline, you lose all adrenaline, and your speed boosts and IAS are removed. You deal extra damage to foes who are stupid enough to don't kite, but that's only the 20% armor penetration, because you already would score crits to foes who ARE running away." Sir Bertrand 05:21, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
Forgot to say: "You still deal less damage than normal, because you can't use attack skills." Sir Bertrand 05:22, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
Red thumbs down This Stance has been voted as Less Able to Make Effective (LAME).

Several users of GuildWiki have formed a consensus that this Stance sucks and badly needs an update from Anet.

This Stance was voted as lame for the following reasons:

  • Disables all skills, including attack skills, that means the effect of Strength doesn't apply.
  • Cancels all Speed Boosts/IAS and other Stances.
  • Causes you to deal less damage than with some attack skills.
  • Inferior to Vow of Strength

Here it is. Sir Bertrand 12:08, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Make this a skill and we have a deal. --Rickyvantof 15:41, 26 April 2007 (CDT)

Agree. And maybe disable skills only for 5 seconds, not 10? — Abedeus Sandstorm 08:47, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

Would miss the point though, which is to make a skill that allows you to deal damage using no skills. Issue is that guild wars rewards active playing, not passive, so the concept is flawed. Not to mention what would a warrior bring in the other slots anyway? -Silk Weaker 06:50, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
I agree especially with the last point; if you try to utilise Primal Rage, at least half your skill bar will be useless fillers. (Signet of Strength? ewww...) Tycn 07:04, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
If I may :
Yellow Thumbs Sideways The following Improvements have been suggested for this Stance. The poster believes that some of the suggestions should be adopted by ANet.

  • Add an inherent +25% IAS and speed boost.
  • Increase Armor penetration to +5...41 (yes, 5...41).
  • Disable only non-attack skills and/or
  • Don't disable, just make unuseable like Vow of Strength, so the adrenaline can charge up.
  • Make this a Skill and not a Stance.
These are just what I though of, I don't think all of this should be done, obviously... but I would like to like this skill, so a good buff would be more than welcome. 06:39, 15 May 2007 (CDT)
While this skill is rather underwhelming... you've just suggested the most overpowered skill ever.--Salamandra 14:29, 23 May 2007 (CDT)
I agree. If you were to make this have an inherent IAS and Speed buff, then you'd better leave it as a stance... Otherwise people would stack IAS Shouts, and Speed stances then activate this... ridiculous? Kami No Kei! 11:31, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
Well, I pretty much made it clear that I wouldn't like all of it to be implemented, otherwise, yes, it is basically "the most overpowered skill ever". More like a "pick what you prefer" list. For exampke, I am fine with the stance status as long as I get an inherent +25 % IAS and a higher armour penetration. 22:56, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
How about this and Every Joe's Favorite Assassin Sunspear Skill? There's your 33% IAS, with a little armor to boot, all in easily maintainable enchantment form. Assuming it isn't stripped. -- 03:04, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
...Nevermind. -- 23:15, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
i disagree with lame tag, this is one of warrior's underated elite, if u can't boost ias with stance use shout then. Never rampage alone is very usefull when used with primal rage, and off course bring your pet xD Raizoken 10:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
That is a miserable idea. Either you're W/R and NRA costs 15e, or you're R/W and you have no Strength, making the elite pointless. This skill is underrated because it's bad. Felix Omni Signature 11:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
15e is not really bad, after u use primal rage u can't use any skill anyway. so u basically only use signet of strength, iam the strongest, never rampage alone, and primal rage. With zealous axe or focus swapping, energy is not a problem at all, NRA last quite long so u don't have to spam it. I know that the build is not very versatile but at least the elite is usable Raizoken 12:53, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

20 Strength?

Table runs out to 20.. what the heck will boost you that high? 70% armor penetration would certainly be interesting. --Nunix 20:22, 7 July 2007 (CDT)

12 + headgear + sup rune = 16; Lunar Fortune + Golden Egg = 18; Blessing of somesort = 19; "Strength +1 when using Skills" modded shield = 20. Entropy Sig (T/C) 21:07, 7 July 2007 (CDT)

Well, that certainly would be interesting. Against a standard 60 AL caster, that would bring the AL to 18, and deal roughly double damage with every hit :) --Gimmethegepgun 22:15, 7 July 2007 (CDT)
Problem is it increases critical hits, not armor penetration. so... yeah. no. 03:22, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Dwarven Stability

Dwarven Stability anyone? You could use attack skills then, which would definitely make this elite interesting again. Friend of ChaosSbgroup 15:58, 30 August 2007 (CDT)

Thank you for that great idea. Zulu Inuoe 11:00, 7 September 2007 (CDT)
Everyone beats me to every topic... This works extremely well. Penetrating Blow/Chop + this = zomg 1337 pwnzage.--†Fallen† 19:25, 25 September 2007 (CDT)

Brutal Weapon

i've been playing around with this and so far best thing i've come up with is a combo of Brutal Weapon (10 communing), Sig of Strength (14 str), and Primal Rage as well as a 12 in the weapon mastery of choice. Its way supirior to conjure and primal rage as all the damge gets the armor penetration bonus (not to mention no stripping). The damage is great (over 50 dps on the new dummy using axes). The locked skills suck but some things work well. Hit dolyak sig and shield bash just befor primal rage for some defence. Could also be useful with IWAY havent tried it yet though. And always take wild blow to clear a stance befor getting locked into attacking. 04:58, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Wait a sec, I'll change some things: It's way inferior to Conjure only because you can't use Attack Skills, an AIS and you only deal 50+ DPS, instead of 70+ DPS with Conjure (10 xMagic), Axe (16 Axe Mastery), 33% AIS and Evis, Exe and Agonizing. The locked skills suck but some things are even worse. Hit Dolyak Signet to be a Slow-Moving Warrior whit low DPS and all Skills diabled. 15:45, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Exactly what i said. If i wasnt clear enuph. Brutal Weapon + Primal Rage was supirior to Conjure + Primal rage only reson i mentioned it is because Conjure is listed in the notes as being helpful to this skill (when it dosnt benifit at all from the armor pen.). by all accounds Conjur + IAS + Attack skills kicks ass (quickshot flameslingers for one). Also the use of dolyak is obviouly pve as movment is way to important in pvp. 18:06, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I think your telling us that Brutal Weapon benefits from the AP? AFAIK, it doesn't, and thus a Conjure stays superior. And if you are enched, your Brutal Weapon buff goes poof, and seeing getting enched isn't too uncommon...... --VipermagiSig -- (s)talkpage 18:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes brutal weapons has its issues however as a single packet of dmg the benifit from brutal will ignore armor wile conjure must be reduced by it. So lets say brutal was adding 10dmg and conjure added 10 dmg the accual hit on a 100 armor target wouldnt affect brutal at all however conjure will now deal only 5. In the end however i agree that this skill needs a buff to at least add a 25% attack speed increase (or make it a skill not a stance) as its a on hit related skill that by nature prevents increasing the number of attacks. 18:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


WTH is a havelina doing with a black chaos axe? To me that's just creepy. Fire TockElementalist-icon-small 15:21, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Looks like a werewolf to me... Or a hyena? LegendaryWalter 10:15, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Would Primal rage Stack with Vow of strength?? Even though you probably couldn't i was just wondering xD

I was about to suggest Eternal Aura, scythe attacks and Dwarven Stability but the last one is already suggested. Either way, Eternal Aura recharges scythe attacks, just takes a bit of timing and DS makes it last. --Chaos Messenger 13:47, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


ok i know its a little early for this but i vote for a LAME tag lol. i mean why choose this over frenzy? you get the same duration at 7 strength (i know, what warrior doesnt run strength? but still) it has the same recharge at 4 seconds. with frenzy people always bring a cancel stance and i doubt it would be any different for this. frenzy never lasts its full duration before people have to cancel it so when will this ever be up longer than frenzy? so yeah my reason for LAME tag is frenzy does this job better at 0 attribute points spent and is not elite.

oops forgot to sign :P -- 11:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
meh ok i just saw the move 33% faster, silly me lol. but still my point stands, the second someone sees you you're gonna have to cancel this so that movement buff is not worth the elite imo.-- 11:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, this skill now is ( very close to being ) LAME,I'm not sure it deserves it but then again, maybe it does.This is now simply a Elite Frenzy.Having to bring a cancel stance to cancel your Elite is pretty lame.Sure this in theory could save you from brining sprint/rush ,but the point of bringing those skills is completly missed.A bunch of these skills were buffed to provide bar compression,some of them seem to have been changed to do that very nicely, PnH comes to mind.( if those skills will be used or not is a different thing)Seeing as you will have to bring a cancel stance for this skill anyways, in theory it would replace your frenzy,meaning you just lost your attack elite so you would have to replace that, it didn't give you a extra skill slot, just a wasted elite.Durga Dido 11:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
And because you're taking a cancel stance anyway, you would barely be able to tell the difference between Frenzy+Rush and Primal Rage+Rush (for example) if you've played a Warrior for a while. ــѕт.мıкε 12:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Speed boost was the wrong way to go if what they wanted was a worthy Elite frenzy,it would have been better if i it was something like , 5e 10r for 5 seconds you attack 33% faster but take double damage,while in this stance you can not be blocked by enchanted foes.Might be OP because of 50% of the time unblockable but something along those lines is what they should have went for.Durga Dido 12:14, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
If you really wanted an elite frenzy, why not just make the bonus damage scale. For 1..12 seconds, you attack and move 33% faster, but you take 50...25% more damage Ezekiel [Talk] 12:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Yeah i would have expected a elite frenzy to be 33% faster and take 33% more damage.Does anyone know if double damage means you take 200% damage or 150%?I think its 200 and that would mean that you would take 133% damage with elite frenzy like this which is pretty manageable.Durga Dido 12:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
It's 200%, which makes my above numbering overpowered. How about 100...50% with 33% IAS and IMS. 133% damage for an easily maintainable 33% IAS seems pretty strong to me. Ezekiel [Talk] 12:33, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
That would be worth it, could always go back to old sword builds, with final trust as the "elite" attack skill.Durga Dido 12:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

(omg like 4 edit conflicts)This is a candidate for one of the worst skills in game,seriously you need to waste attributes for it to last at least AS LONG AS FRENZY, speed boost is quite for nothing since you will need to cancel it anyway and runners rly can't use a skill that makes them take double damage...and the worst thing is that such a joke skill is ELITE! omg it wouldn't be good even as non-elite lol.So...IMO It begs for a LAME tag:

Red thumbs down This Stance has been voted as Less Able to Make Effective (LAME).

Several users of GuildWiki have formed a consensus that this Stance sucks and badly needs an update from Anet.

This Stance was voted as lame for the following reasons:

  • omg you need other reasons?!?!?!

EM Signature TALK Contributions 12:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

how about" u attack and move 33% faster and WHILE u r attackin u take double damage? 14:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)Marrt

It would still be lame because you would STILL have to cancel it under those circumstances. 16:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I have said it before, so much they could have done with such a cool sounding name. Instead they continue to do things like this. When they redesigned this skill they were probably sitting around the table smoking pot. I am not complaining, I just wish they would make the skill useful. Warriors have frenzy already, and rush, there is no need for an inferior combination. Good idea to try and work toward compression, bad implementation. Why not just take the skill, make it a stance, give it some random duration based on strength, then make it give a 25% ias and 50% adrenaline gain. Not even sure if that would be good, but it would be nice to try. We have a battle rage that is similar to that, just an ims with double adrenaline. Maybe make primal like battle but give an ias instead of ims. Or do something that might be actually interesting, like keep it just how it is but make it so you only take double damage if you are not attacking. That way the skill is great if you constantly stay in battle but if you leave battle uhoh time. SpikeiconTenetke Mekko 16:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Soldier's Fury. I want the old version back and buff that; it was at least mildly effective. Entropy Sig (T/C) 18:24, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I wish they had just buffed the older version, this one isn't good. SpikeiconTenetke Mekko 20:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Since nobody really used Primal Rage, probably Anet thought to use this skill slot for fun, since Frenzy is like... Echomending. Now you can actually have a really manly elite xD 01:56, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I'll take Primal Rage and use Frenzy as my cancel. lol ــѕт.мıкε 02:55, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Taking primal rage basically is bar compression, you suddenly don't need a speed boost or frenzy and it's in one skills. You can take a different cancel stance or even -gasp- add more utility to your bar since you've now put 2 skills into 1~ Warriors with a speed buff who get to run around hitting things 33% faster is fun too ;P Xxteacakez 04:51, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
What stance would you recommend? Felix Omni Signature 09:26, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
No Stance, because you lose your Elite for almost nothing. If they would have scaled the damage reduction, then it might have been worth running because you get an extra skill slot. ــѕт.мıкε 14:25, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
its so underpowered as it is right now anyway, if they kept the same function but added the scaled damage reduction then it would be worthy of an elite slot imo-- 18:16, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
i was thinking about this skill today and i had an idea, i dunno if it could ever work but tell me what you guys think. when you activate this skill it works exactly the same as frenzy, but the duration scales up exactly the same as it does already, if you activate this skill while under the effects of primal rage still, its replaced by 33% movement increase and maybe you take 15% less damage. and everytime you activate this skill while under either effect it then gives you the opposite, so if you have the speed boost you get the IAS, if you have the IAS you get the speed boost. maybe its too complicated but i thought it would be a cool idea, you'll get the compression of two skills since primal rage cancels itself leaving you with a free slot where otherwise you'd take the usual rush, sprint, dash etc-- 23:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
That would be energy intensive. My idea is "For 5 seconds, your Strength attribute is doubled." With a recharge of 15 or so. Felix Omni Signature 23:18, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

i used primal rage cant say i will know it used to offer a better chance with critcals that added up with other skills you set other skills before it and then you would do more dmg it was a very nice build but they are destroying this skill it does the same as frenzy just longer duration frenzy does 33% speed boost and double dmg for 8 seconds where this does 33% faster attacks and last for 15 seconds now i have to find a new build for my scythe using warrior how annoying ~fizzdar oak leaf

Uhm dude, there is something called punctuation, I herd it maeks ur stuffz easier to read. Also, for a scythe-warrior, Warrior's Endurance & Burst of Aggression ---this-way---> --TakisigTaki Fujiko</font> 00:57, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

RaO for Warriors is extremely good. This is RaO for Warriors. Run with D-Chop/A-Chop and Disciplined Stance and it kills stuff. --☭Guild*talk* 01:07, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Rampage as One is 25e. Warriors have 20e. Felix Omni Signature 01:18, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
This is 5 energy. --☭Guild*talk* 01:36, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
So it is. Felix Omni Signature 01:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

first off, i dont talk about how others type rather i use dots and marks as i call them is my choice. dont read what i have to say first off, i already had burst of aggresion in my build i was designing my build increase my critcal hits and attack fast i dont have a single attack skill in my bar and my build worked awesome up till this update

You were running Primal Rage (a stance) with Burst of Aggression (a stance)? I do not see how they combine well. Felix Omni Signature 01:47, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
(OT)Also, call me a grammar Nazi, but IMO it's a sign of disrespect towards other people, when you type without any punctuation whatsoever and at least some halfway correct grammar - I tend to believe such people think "oh lets just smack my text here i dont need to put punctuation inmy sentences orany grammer or spaces it all takesu nnecesarey tiem witch i don hav at all lolz idun car ifppl can readit lateron" :( Punctuation is NOT a choice. --TakisigTaki Fujiko</font> 02:17, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Tehn Mbaye I solhud siwcth ervey ltetr in the mdlide of erevy wrod. You can slitl raed it, c'nat you? XD ــѕт.мıкε 02:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, as long as the first and last letter are at their correct position, the brain has no problems in figuring out the word. Doesn't change the fact that it'd be annoying to read though. ^^ --TakisigTaki Fujiko</font> 02:46, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm a bit of a grammar Nazi myself, but I try not to correct others, because I'm sure they might find it to be a little rude. =/ ــѕт.мıкε 03:00, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
I think you can't generalize... Phrahtiiiss Vscsntrtcioooain Ppcvnnnnmmeulccotrlrscsouaiocisoooiioolaciois 05:02, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

So any more I don't like being hit for -200+ when I am trying to kite / chase someone. This is trash unless someone dumps a prot on you. Frenzy + <cancel stance> is good because it allows you IAS when you need it - to spike someone down. You never let it linger to its full duration because that is too dangerous. Frenzied Defense is a good anti-martial spike since it cuts the damage roughly in half (ignoring the fact of unblockable attacks and Lightning Orbs). You don't keep it up after you foil the spike because it is too dangerous. It seems to me that what ANet really should have done is introduce a new skill, Frenzied Speed - For 8 seconds you move 33% faster but take double damage. Speed buffs aren't the same as temporary IAS/block. You really do want to have them up almost as often as possible. Whether it is kiting from disaster, or chasing down an opponent (who is likely also using a speedbuff), or splitting, or flagrunning, or...anything! PvP, you just can't compete without a speedbuff. That's what makes the new Primal Rage a trash skill. It is far too dangerous to keep up constantly (around foes) as you would most IMS, negating any "bar compression" that may have been gotten. So it basically is, Elite Frenzy. Which is a failure.

I will admit that when you're not under attack, this is great. You can infinitely chase down targets and kill them quickly; it's like having Flail and Sprint up all the time. But in PvE this is pretty much never the case (AoE damage abounds), and in real PvP anyone that sees you using this will send a Lightning Orb your way, or get their teammates to. You could take a cancel stance...but that completely negates the compression advantage! Bah. In short: Looks good on paper, fails miserably in practice. Entropy Sig (T/C) 05:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

well i observed about 5-6 matches of rawr playing yesterday and they used primal rage very effectively in gvg. it was maintained most of the time for constant pressure and used to run flags when necessary. this skill will prolly become the new warrior's endurance for gvg. -Silvermoon

^and if rawr runs it its good. You just need to be decent at playing warrior. I've been using this in ra for big lolsies. Take a cancel stance anyway. I like this skill :p. —MaySig Warw/Wick 17:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
"bra compression"? Have you been watching too much MythBusters Entropy? :P Anyway, the way I see this skill is to be used like Frenzy except making it so that you don't need s a knockdown or cripple or whatever to deal with people moving away from you, since you'll be able to outrun them (and get some free crits in the process). If you wanted that ability previously you'd have to have Frenzy and Charge on your bar because anything else would've cancelled Frenzy --Gimmethegepgun 17:14, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Actually, "and in real PvP anyone that sees you using this will send a Lightning Orb your way, or get their teammates to. " would go for Frenzy too. But it doesn't happen. It's not bar compression, nor bra compression, but it is useful. Rather than just Frenzy'ing or Rushing, you can do both, and cancel it with Rush (or Disciplined Stance, if you want to). Imho, it's not too good (I'd still prefer Evis), but it's far from a bad elite. The dev notes were just retarded by calling it bar compression. --- VipermagiSig -- (contribs) (talk) 17:49, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
I would have to agree, while I don't think it's all that amazing, I have to disagree with the LAME tag (as well as the reasoning). Every warrior has strength anyway, duration isn't much of a factor and this is clearly better than frenzy. I still think that this skill isn't all that amazing though for an elite (especially when you look at the hexes that recently got buffed....) 03:51, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Its been stated before, yes this skill is better than frenzy, but only barely. Yes you get a speed boost, you can use it out of combat alright. but in combat its exactly the same as frenzy, the speed boost is only a minor advantage, because yes you'll catch up with kiters but people will hit you. I dont know what pvp or gvg your playing where people dont hit someone hard if they're using frenzy but it certainly doesnt sound like you're fighting good teams. And the reason you've seen people using this effectivly in gvg matches is because its used by people who are good at playing warrior anyway. Its basically like them going into the battle without an elite. They know exactly how to use and when to cancel frenzy so naturally they now how and when to cancel this appalling skill. This is very well deserving of the LAME tag imo, the speed boost means crap to me, your cancel stance is most likely a speed boost anyway so why? You want that crappy speed boost while attacking when once you're being kited you're gonna get hit and have to cancel anyway?-- 12:35, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Also just to point out, the duration of this skill is not a factor at all. Its not likely you'll have this on the full duration anyway, unless you're an idiot with a death wish.-- 12:41, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

First of all; this skill sees a lot of use - thus this aint a bad buff. This aint without reason of course. That IMS is needed, that much is clear already. Now this skill also makes all attacks more quickly and thus more pressure. For spikes yes a frenzy/rush combo is probably better, but in splits pressure is usually more important. As for the bar compression, I do think this gives some compression with cancel stances like hexbreaker, defensive stance, etc. These stances give some more utility. Also this is an energy speed boost, which can be used as such (flag running etc.) So yeah, I think this skill is OK Shai Meliamne 22:52, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Just because a skill sees a lot of use does not mean it's good, mending sees a lot of use, are you gonna say thats also a good skill?Having thousands of bad players run a skill,does not mean the skill is good.Sure this skill may have its use,but its kinda lame that they didn't actually make it where it's worthy of an elite,like someone above said, if someone sees you use this they are gonna lightning orb you, if they see you use frenzy,they are gonna do the same, the thing is having to keep a non elite skill down isn't that bad,but having to keep your elite skill down,gimps you.This is a okay skill,but elite skills shouldn't be okay they should be great.It's just sad that they didn't think about this skill a little bit longer,had they have put scalable damage taken,this skill would have been that much nicer,or one of many other extras/tweaks. Durga Dido 23:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
If a skill sees a lot of use it basically means it's not underused and that was the main purpose of the update. More importantly good players use this and in the wall of tekst above I've explained why. Sure if you use this you may become a target, but the same happens with frenzy. Sure it may hurt, but look at the bright side! That's one spike/orb less on your more vulnerable party members. IAS + IMS is good especially considering the long duration, low recharge, low cost with normally no drawbacks (that is of course untill you get swarmed) or as some other people call it: it's Rampage for warriors! I think people should stop whining, a lot of other people got the skill they wanted and honestly I think this will be hit by the nerfbat rather than getting a boost/change. Shai Meliamne 00:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Your right about the purpose of the update, so you get a point for that :).I just like to say a few short things,it doesn't matter if you become the target when you use frenzy,because its not your elite,this is.I don't know if you you were talking to me about whining, but i don't think I'm whining , i guess im just disapointed that they didn't make this that very tiny small bit better, with a scaled damage taken progression,it would have been so much nicer then,I will not run this skill,i just don't like it, that doesn't mean its (that) bad.PS You can't be serious about this getting a nerf,how/why? Durga Dido 00:16, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Just saying, one part of the people think this is bad cuz of the double damage - while the other half thinks this is a great skill for pressure or running (as long as you don't get attacked like with frenzy). Because this is being used to great effect in RA, TA, GvG and perhaps in HA - basically everywhere where frenzy is being used. I've given the reasons for this and I think it is indeed good enough. Now because of that I'm prety sure it will receive a nerf rather than a nerf :) 16:12, 18 December 2008 (UTC) <-- that was me Shai Meliamne 16:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

lol at ppl saying this skill is bad. rawr just won their billionth gold cape running a prage war. how many gold capes do you have? 00:42, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

If rawr ran mending on their warriors and they won a gold cape, would that mean that mending is good?No it means rawr is good.How many feet do you have in your mouth? Durga Dido 00:48, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Lol... You just answered your own question. Of course it is good, because good players can make a supposedly bad skill work well. It is clear the good players will take advantage of the update, and use the skill, rather than saying it sucks and never see its potential. So yes, it would mean mending is good, because they put it to good use. Obs plz. King Neoterikos 00:59, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Ugh.... nevermind i give up, mending is godly. Durga Dido 01:20, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Lol...... Never said that, however, I am saying you shouldn't think a skill is crap because you think a skill is crap, rather than looking at the potential it has (which top guilds have found and are using to their advantage, because it's obviously been working; oh noes it might actually be a good skill!!!!). King Neoterikos 01:26, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

This skill makes my survivor mesmer happy.

This quote "lol at ppl saying this skill is bad. rawr just won their billionth gold cape running a prage war. how many gold capes do you have?" strikes me as a bit odd. The way I understand it the only way to get a gold trim on your cape is to "The winning players of a season ladder will have their trim changed to gold permanently. ". That is from the official wiki. Now this update happened December 11th. So how is it possible that they won a gold cape trim after this update? The most recent tournament was November and that was not won by RAWR. In fact they did not place in the top 5. Now I know they are a good guild, but can someone explain to me how between December the 11th and now they have won a season ladder please? Just wanted to add that I know nothing about the tournaments so I don't know how they work. I do find it hard to believe that an entire season is decided in less than two weeks though. Actually 10 days, so yeah, could someone give me a link because if a season only lasts 10 days maybe someone at Anet is doing it wrong. SpikeiconTenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 13:19, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

They won the mAT on saturday. The winner of the mAT is given a gold cape. [rawr] have won something like 9 or 10 mATs, so they sort of know how to play the game. Primal rage fucking owns. Lord of all tyria 13:38, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict) 8, iirc. ^see loat. —MaySig Warw/Wick 13:41, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
So the official wiki is wrong, that makes sense. Also I never once said they didn't know how to play. Please don't insert what isn't there. If you look really carefully, and I know it is in small text, I wrote that I know they are a good guild. I know this because I have watched them play. Another reason for my confusion is the lack of listing on the GW site, I am sure that monday they will have it. Though kind of silly not to use an automated listing. That is off topic though. Anyway now that I know the official wiki is wrong yet again it makes sense. SpikeiconTenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 13:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
The guild wars site is pretty slow with its news. Lord of all tyria 13:51, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Could someone please update Cape with the new information about the gold trim. The mat is still not listed as a way to get it I don't think. I would but I really don't know enough about the tournaments to do it with any confidence. SpikeiconTenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 14:14, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Done. Lord of all tyria 14:19, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. SpikeiconTenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 14:41, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

RAWR usage

This is getting into enough discussion I think to deserve it's own section. I went back and watched the match twice. I will give RAWR credit they are really good, and very coordinated. Out of Cake did very well, but there is something I noticed. People that are talking about how good this skill is need to go back and watch the amount of damage being taken. Any credit given to RAWR for winning with this skill is solely on the monks. Without a monk constantly proting I counted at least 3 times out of cake would have died because of this skill alone. Not spiking, just regular attacking and damage. A good example is around 8:20. I think that was the time. Another good example is 8:40 or so. Both times if not for a really fast monk then it would have been over from stuff that any frenzy warrior could have easily canceled out of. Now am I saying this skill is horrible and should never see the light of day? No, but I am saying that Rawr is good, and it still almost happened to them. So unless you think your team is up to that level this skill is really not for general pvp. Using it in any serious pve area is basically suicide anyway. So this skill can have use, I saw several points where Out of Cake got a kill because of the ims/ias combination. I will never use it, I know I am not at the level where the monk I am with is going to be that dependable. They were probably also using vent, not sure though. Anyway, you can get mad at what I have said and tell me how this is the best skill and I am a noob for not using it. For me though I watched a really great team use it and if not for how good they are it would have ended up costing them a ton, and I know I am not nearly that good in pvp. SpikeiconTenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 14:41, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

This is no harder to cancel than frenzy, unless you spend your life running WE so you can cancel with dash. Its similar to frenzy in that you have to balance risk and reward, if you're being trained every time you activate it then you are unlikely to kill stuff, but neither are the other team. I've played a few GvGs with rage (r350ish range) and have had no more problems with being spiked than I did running frenzy, or even just having less armor on a hammer bar. Lord of all tyria 14:47, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
It's been said before but i think it bares repeating for a lot of people. RAWR are able to win with this skill because they know how to play, at a top level. Sure the IMS and IAS work great together, but the amount of times having the IMS makes a difference is very minimal, so its like their warriors parctically going in with frenzy and no elite. These guys play at a higher level, more than the average player so they're able to use this skill and make it seem decent. But to the majority of average/casual players this elite is total crap, and thats all there is to it.-- 03:35, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
Ok, first off, everyone so far in this section is awful (perhaps with the exception of Lord of all tyria). Not being able to cancel this being a problem, is a problem well if you suck. Primal rage is the best skill to run in rawrspike because dismember is only 5 adrenaline, meaning you can spike more often than evis - and primal charges it up much faster than any other elite. Not only that, but with primal, hitting bulls is really easy so spiking runs alot more smoothly - the KD stops kiting and can stop the monk protting. Primal also means you don't have to swap into frenzy to start the spike, which actually makes it harder to catch because its alot less predictable in skill use. If you're terrible at pvp; theres no point in making comments about what does and doesn't work there, genuinely. Its ran for a reason. 18:20, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm terrible, people are worse. Lord of all tyria 19:40, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
LoL @ that explanation. ...On a side note: I'm not taking sides on this PvP crap, but just want to say that the new functionality doesn't fit the concept in the Icon one bit and I think they could have come up with something a lot more interesting if they really tried to. Even the "Were' skills" on the decade-old D2-Druid were better concepts than this "Elite". --ilrIlr d-small(01,Jan.'09)
the only point i can agree with is the "catching people for bulls strike". but even that is a stretch to agree with, if you run this, or frenzy you need a cancel stance, that cancel stance is most likely gonna be an IMS. so if you were running frenzy and you wanted to hit someone with bulls strike all you gotta do is switch to your cancel stance and use that... and if thats a problem, then yes you do suck. and your "primal charges dismember faster than any elite" guess what, any other IAS can charge it just as fast and doesnt take an elite slot. also saying primal is less predicatable than frenzy, are you joking? what makes it less predicatable? when you start your spike you put this up just like frenzy. unless you mean you keep this up randomly, in which case wtf? did you notice the double damage? just face it, you're trying so so hard to defend this skill when it clearly isn't worthy to be elite. its frenzy with a crappy speed boost ffs-- 17:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
You still need a cancel stance yeah, and yes it's just frenzy with a speed boost. Yet it isn't a bad skill at all and anyone trying to say otherwise clearly hasn't been paying attention to PvP the last few weeks. --Progger - talk 18:54, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Sounds to me like the real PvP'ers are too busy with Palms and Hexway to even notice this skill --ilrIlr d-small
You sacrifice 29 damage on your spike by switching from Evis to Dismember. You gain a lot of pressuring ability with Primal Rage over Frenzy. I really don't understand what's so hard about this concept.Noob4sure 23:01, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
So nobody is noticing that it is great to be able to have 33% IMS whenever you want? Either for intercepting people in your base, setting off for a split or to run a flag?TrinityX 11:56, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
I hate it to cancel my frenzy with rush when people are kiting away. You try to catch someone to eat your Bull's Strike, cancel your frenzy with rush (one adrenaline, unleash your bull's and go in frenzy (10 energy)again to possible unleah your evis+executioners. I'll gladly sacrifice the +29 damage from my eviscerate for primal rage+dismember. The preceding unsigned comment was added by (contribs) .

(Reset indent) I am tired of seeing this run, then the minute an Assassin hits the person with PS all you can hear is "OMG SIN IS SO OP". It is called a cancel stance. I think that most people's problem with this skill is that it really isn't a huge improvement over Frenzy. At least not enough to really warrant the elite status. I could be wrong, I don't use the skill. I am getting tired of hearing people whine because apparently an Assassin should not be able to even target a warrior. SpikeiconTenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 18:12, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

A) No, you're wrong. This skill is good. You don't have to swap to rush and thus waste adrenal to catch up with kiting targets, and you can still cancel during spikes. I run this over Frenzy all the time (On a unrelated note, I run this in pve, and win. So there.) B) If you don't think Palm Strike sins are overpowered, you obviously agree with Izzy's idea of balanced. —MaySig Warw/Wick 18:32, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Palm sins are not OP cuz the solution is simple; dshot/humility and these sins are practically useless cuz their build is created around Palm Strike. But I think all that is out of the question. PRage may be useless in some cases - for instance when they take damage. But on the other hand Eviscerate would be useless if you can't gain adrenaline. The point is just that PRage is IMS + IAS - RaO for warriors. And personally I think I rather take double damage which I can counter by canceling my stance than having to spend three skills and being unable to use RaO if my pet is dead. Now people are using RaO ánd I've heared ppl call it OP (at least never heared of ppl calling it under powered). Just giving a reason why PRage can be considered much more powerful than RaO. Shai Meliamne 16:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
Your post started badly but it redeemed itself towards the end. Lord of all tyria 16:49, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
People who say RaO is overpowered (now) just suck at the game tbh. That's like saying they need to nerf Concussion Shot because you can daze every 5sec. :\
Anyway - Primal Rage is better than Frenzy...good...fucking owns based on how good a Warrior you were already... if you've been using Frenzy for years anyway, this is just a no-brainer good skill. I suck ass at using Frenzy, and so my initial impression of this skill was not very high. (Plus I enjoyed seeing -200s over lolpve monsters using this. There was also this time a PRager came after me while I had Ripostes. I soloed him at least three times that match. Hint: Cancelstance is still important. :\)
Finally, Critical Defenses kills Warriors. Protip. But it's a balanced skill because Warrior's Cunning is totally viable. Entropy Sig (T/C) 10:22, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
Just because RaO isn't in the meta doesn't make it not a stupid, overpowered skill. Its not been changed since its initial nerf from godly to merely awesome. Overpowered skills make it easier for a complete idiot to get almost the maximum output from it, and since RaO requires nothing more than knowing to target swap and roll your face on a keyboard, its pretty easy. Same goes for escape scythe rangers, most hex builds etc. I get spiked in primal rage regularly because I am bad, yet its so much better for 90% of a match that it doesn't matter. Lord of all tyria 16:39, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
RaO is oorsome, but I don't think it's in the same tier of brokenness compared to other stuff. Scavenger's Strike update did kinda remove the last downside of it, though, which was having to learn to manage energy (what a concept). Would be like if they introduced a Warrior skill that let you take half damage for duration >.> Entropy Sig (T/C) 05:06, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
War takes half damage... Wasn't that (almost) Defy Pain?--El Nazgir sigEl_Nazgir 08:02, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


it was a few days ago already but still. For me the main advantage of this + rush over frenzy + rush was that this had 33% IMS over 25% of rush while chasing (not considering the increased attack speed). Now this hardly has any advantage over using rush for chasing. Still a good skill though but currently I'm leaning to the good ol' Eviscerate Shai Meliamne 09:22, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I play prage and shock axe both, and I can say that prage is infinitely more fun, and even usually more deadly. I don't really notice the 25% IMS being inferior. In fact I didn't get a chance to try prage before it was nerfed, and I still think it's amazing, so... Entropy Sig (T/C) 09:50, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
A speed buff's a speed buff. I have yet to try this though. King NeoterikosKNsignature 10:24, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
33% was more DPS/Pressure in most cases (moving foes ofc :P) and currently the additional DPS may not be enough to justify the additional damage from Eviscerate. More importantly PRage requires an investment in Strength meaning Eviscerate could use other attributes more easily like conjures etc. Well, guess I should recalculate or sumthing :P Shai Meliamne 11:54, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
16 Axe Mastery, 13 or more Strength (for Sentinel's insignia)...that doesn't leave much room for other attributes. Eviscerate does +42 or so, and while that is strong, you will crit on moving foes for 40-60 anyway, so meh. You can still catch people using Dash, as that's only 19% boost over time, and any other IMS that's not a maintainable 25%. The thing with prage is that you've got a permanent IMS, especially if you take Rush as the cancel, so that boosts your pressure way more than Eviscerate ever could, assuming that foes kite (and that holds true in nearly any PvP arena). Entropy Sig (T/C) 12:59, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


15 recharge lol. WB Eviscerate. 01:02, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Welcome Back: frenzy, more skill required,more fun(or less^.^)--WoTU 01:19, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

NOOOOOOOOOO! And not for the reasons you think. I loved this skill's popularity, but then again, I play a Mesmer. They'll still use Frenzy, yeah, but most people don't run away with Frenzy on, thereby minimizing my chances of those delicious 200 damage WW's. Lazuli 02:16, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Bleh, just when I'd gotten good at prage. It still works fine's still an extremely powerful skill....if you never have to cancel it. Sigh. They could have made the recharge more like 8 or 10, to give it *some* hope of still being used. Entropy Sig (T/C) 02:18, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Anet favors the axe as opposed to the scalpel. Ugh... I just reminded myself of the 08 campaign season. Lazuli 02:39, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Anet tells prage to cower before their EGYPTIAN RAGE! Cress Arvein Cress sig 03:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
With 13 strength its only 2 seconds downtime, so this is still quite powerful. --Progger - talk 10:29, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
If you have a good prot monk so you don't have to cancel prage ever, sure... Entropy Sig (T/C) 10:49, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Meh, you're right. Guess I'll use frenzy again. --Progger - talk 18:07, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Honestly I think the power of this skill was rediculous and I'm happy it happened, but 15s is a bit too much...I agree with Entropy, it should have been more like 10s Shai Meliamne 16:50, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
And therein lies the problem with Primal Rage: the important thing about Frenzy is the 4 seconds recharge that means after you cancel it, it's ready to use again when you need it. Primal Rage's downtime if you're using a cancel stance after a few seconds (which any sane person would) makes it apalling. And since you have to take a cancel stance, you need to take either a seperate IAS or IMS anyway unless you take a Tactics blocking stance. Either way, any advantage of skillbar compression is lost, and 1 of the 2 effects of Primal Rage is likely to be made redundant too because of the other stance. Either way, congratulations on wasting your elite slot on this dreadful skill! Andran Steel 17:54, 7 August 2009 (UTC)


It was already nerved and now its adrenal with a VERY long recharge and still having double damge? lol that's baed. 17:25, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

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