Talk:Secondary professions for a Warrior

I have to fight the strong temptation to type something like 'Never, and that REALLY means NEVER bring a W/Mo or one of those [censored] tanks which can't deal damage if they are not under attack to PvP' - Lavvaran 09:33, 31 August 2006 (CDT)

A.K.A Tanks, and why not? That's an easy 25 faction for me. ^o^ -Onlyashadow 09:40, 31 August 2006 (CDT)

No fun when this creature is in my team... - Lavvaran 10:50, 31 August 2006 (CDT)

I just quit out of RA when I see mending or live vic going up.-Onlyashadow 11:19, 31 August 2006 (CDT)

The fun thing starts when you see that the warrior hasn't got that. INSTEAD the warrior has ripostes and some defensive stances. And deals 1-3 damage per hit. Nothing more. (YES. I'm steaming off for all those times this happened to be in my team lol) - Lavvaran 12:26, 31 August 2006 (CDT)

Wow, this needs some serious fixing -.- Mirror of Ice! — Skuld 09:47, 22 February 2007 (CST)

agreed, and people are forgetting warrior/elementalists now commonly use the 'conjure' skills to gain a damage boost. Napalm Flame 09:06, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

true dat. holy crap there is one line for w/p, c'mon.

For P/W maybe use Anthem of Guidance and other adrenaline shouts.

On another nots, why not include the IWAY in the ranger section, for the use of pets? Lots of pvp warriors use it...--Kurzspear 17:41, 17 April 2007 (CDT)

No, they don't. — Skuld 17:43, 17 April 2007 (CDT)

W/D's with a scythe instead of a Warrior weapon are actually really useful. If you make good use of condition skills like Wounding Strike you can really make enemies feel the hurt.Demonscarnage 10:57, 6 May 2007 (CDT)

Why would you want consume soul and BiP if you have cripslash? Olddd stuff — Skuld 09:50, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

I know, but it's worth noting. Kinda. Like, IF you need a BiP or Consume Soul for some retarded reason, PvE, or hard counter, or maybe for some reason spirits became good again (lol?), that's the option. But whatever. -Silk Weaker 09:51, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

Oh, also, for the record, BiP does something unique, wheras there's no real reason to take plague when you have mending, not really. -Silk Weaker 23:34, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

W/E with Ride the Lightning is a good idea. I believe this was mentioned in an early edition of The Scribe. A quick jump to the enemy, use knockdown and they are dead. Only con, high energy cost and echaustion.--67.160.178.46 02:25, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

omg

The following note are border on retarded (no offense). They just are bad advice through and through. The parts I think are absolutely idiotic are in bold.

Warrior/Ranger

• The Ranger line offers a few alternative IAS skills.

Warrior/Elementalist

• Shock can be used as a snare and interrupt, however exhaustion will certainly be felt with a Warrior's low energy pool.
• Grasping Earth can be used as a AoE snare to keep groups of enemies from kiting as efficiently.
• The conjure skills, such as Conjure Frost can provide additional damage when wielding an elemental weapon for a very small investment of energy.

Warrior/Mesmer

• Wise use of Physical Resistance, Elemental Resistance or elemental mantras can add additional survivability to solo or tanking builds. PvE only.
• Hex Breaker is otfen useful as a cancel stance and for hex prevention, especially on a Warrior running the elite "Charge!". *Web of Disruption can be used as an interrupt in a build with little energy skills.

Warrior/Monk

• The condition and hex removal skills of the Monk close a critical gap in the warrior skill line. Skills such as Mending Touch, Purge Signet and Empathic Removal are good utility skills. (Dear god remove empathatic!)
• Despite the popularity, Healing Prayers skills are less effective then a warrior's self healing skills, and should be avoided. This is especially true of Mending, which is often considered a laughable build element. (Needed?)
• Though expensive, Healing Breeze can, when paired with a defensive stance and high armor, provide a safe self heal, however, the same investment in Tactics for Healing Signet can provide more health, at the cost of some defense. On the other hand, Restful Breeze can provide a cheap heal and relatively low levels of Healing Prayers. Though it cannot be used whilst attacking, it can be useful in some situation, such as in a retreat. Despite its drawbacks, it could be better than Healing Signet in that it is less prone to interrupts, does not decrease armor, can be used on other players, and heals for more under the same attribute level, especially if switched to an enchanting mod. (Omg...please shoot me! Healing breeze...-_- Must I say more?)

Warrior/Necromancer

• The most common usage of the Necromancer secondary is for condition removal via Plague Touch.
• Blood is Power can be used for energy management for the group. (Where and when is BoP used on a Tank -_-...) It's not used on a tank. Right? Right.
• Rend Enchantments can be used as an enchantment removal. (Never seen this used...probably never will.)

Please, please don't suggest people use BiP on their tank. When people taking about BiP on the tank, they mean CASTING BiP on the tank (I think). 10:08, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Warrior/Assassin

• The Assassin has a wide range of snares and shadow steps that can serve a Warrior well. Shadow Prison is an outstanding skill in this vein. (Um, isn't Shadow Axe nerfed O.o? Energy issues.)
• Signet of Malice can provide free condition removal.
• Dash is an excellent speed boost that also serves as a quickly recharging cancel stance for Frenzy.
• Death's Charge is useful for closing distance in battel, but take care not to outrun your party's support.
• Iron Palm can be an alternative to Shock. (Maybe, doubt this though...)
• Disrupting Dagger is a useful interrupt that cannot be blocked or miss.

Warrior/Ritualist

• Spare use of Weapon skills can benefit a Warrior; Splinter Weapon can be combined with Triple Chop or Hundred Blades. Ritualist primaries, however, far outclass Warriors at spamming weapon spells.
• Consume Soul can be used to counter Spirit spamming, as a warrior (especially a Sword or Axe warrior) is fairly dangerous even without an elite skill.
• Death Pact Signet can be used in a situation where you can control deaths effectively (such as in PvE). Alternatively, Flesh of My Flesh could be used as a hard rez.

Warrior/Paragon

• Remedy Signet may be used with no attribute points for a quick, energy-free method of condition removal.

Warrior/Dervish

• Many Scythe Mastery skills are general-purpose Melee Attacks (i.e. Rending Sweep) rather than weapon-specific skills, which allows them to be used with axes, hammers, and swords.
• The Warrior can make use of the Dervish's cheap Enchantments to add damage types and other effects to attacks.
• A scythe can work in a Steady Stance/Drunken Blow/Desperation Blow build. (Needed...? Sure it works, but no one uses it, ever.)
• Rending Touch can be used as an enchant removal.
• Pious Haste can be used as a speed buff and a cancelstance for Frenzy.

Readem (talk*contribs) 18:16, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

You have no idea about past metas do you? Empathic Paladins? BiP wars? HEX BREAKER WARS? Perhaps past their time, they still function, and arguably could do a decent job in the right hands. Not optimized, but good enough that a superior team using it will still beat an inferior one. Of course, you have to find out where to draw the line, but I think it's a decent place to draw it since top guilds have used it, could work again if the meta changes.-Silk Weaker 23:34, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

I know about most of the past meta's. But the key word here is PAST. Sure, they used to run Emp remov, but is it used now? NO. Never! It plain, downright, sucks. It's like telling a war to use Purge Conditions, when clearly Mending Touch is better, just because it was "once" used. So stop telling me I know nothing and that I am full of shit, and get with the times! New skills replace old ones, it will happen in GW:EN, as well as the camp after that, so get used to it. Readem (talk*contribs) 00:48, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Actually, Empathic Removal is still a decent skill if you don't need a specific warrior elite. It's hex and condition removal in one skill with no bad side-effects (though a mediocre recharge time). It's mediocre as elites go, but most elites are, in fact, mediocre. So I don't mind axing it specifically, but I don't think it's actually BAD advice.\

Shadow Prison is still quite good at what it does for 10 energy. Not a big deal if you're following it with an adrenal spike. And Iron Palm in place of Shock is definitely a viable strategy, particularly in PvE -- the exhaustion from Shock effectively limits you to using it every 30 seconds over the long run, and often hurts your energy just as much as paying 5 extra energy for Iron Palm would. I really like Iron Palm for Crippling Slash builds, since you've got conditions up the wazoo to trigger it with. Also very good if your team has SF nukers, dervishes, &c. spreading stuff around. This isn't nearly as bad as the actual warrior guide. — 130.58 (talk) 03:17, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Readem, just because something is past doesn't mean it's not used. See Flavor of the Month. Solus 02:49, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

We shouldn't list past meta's is all I am saying. They are not used anymore, because newer, better skills have come out. We could always list past metas on a sep page, but on this one it should just be basic general skills used, otherwise it will just look cluttered. Readem (talk*contribs) 09:31, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Delete

I think we should get rid of the secondary professions articles entirely. People don't seem to be able to reach a concensus as to what are good suggestions on this page... besides that mending is a bad idea. There's very little useful information on here anyway. — JediRogue (talk |contribs) 02:53, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

I strongly agree. It's always someones opinion vs the other, with never solid solution. Solus 02:54, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Yeh, i'm with that — Skuld 03:05, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

This is what I mean, Skuld re-inserted a common I removed because he thinks it works, which I don't. These articles provide little information, and become a huge area of arguement and alot of useless information. Wiki should be providing information ot state the obivous articles. Solus 03:08, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Rending Sweep does work, this is not my opinion, it just does. — Skuld 03:09, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

This is extactly what I mean. I'm not going to argue over things like this every though I easily could. I'm 100% supporting the deletion of this articles. Solus 03:10, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

You'd lose that argument. Rending Sweep definitely has its place on a warrior's skill bar, and it is important to point out that a lot of Scythe Mastery attacks aren't weapon-specific, because that's not something most people notice right away. You'd probably win the deletion argument, though -- I'm fine with axing this, personally. But it doesn't suck as bad as other "guide" bits. Really, though, the most useful info here needs to be in the general guide, and the other stuff isn't that useful. So, err, delete away. — 130.58 (talk) 03:23, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Delete this, too many arguements come about because of these articles. They aren't very helpful anyway. Readem (talk*contribs) 09:26, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Ok lets stop editting cause the edits are pissing me off. Do we have to make the decision to get rid of them like official or something or can I just delete tag em all and remove all the references?— JediRogue (talk |contribs) 03:06, 11 May 2007 (CDT)

delete

see Category talk:Profession combinations#why delete --Honorable Sarah 22:36, 11 May 2007 (CDT)

Sarah, look at a section above this.... LOL, way to be original. — JediRogue (talk |contribs) 22:37, 11 May 2007 (CDT)

delete, please --85.198.238.214 09:45, 15 May 2007 (CDT)

SAVE

I feel that it is a great tool to HELP people see what other professions there are. Like the old saying what is good for one is bad for another. It does not matter if there is no consensus on what is the best or what works best or worse. it is just a tool to be used so that people can see the way different classes work together or don't. It has help me to decide on what class and secondary class I wanted to make.

Well that is my thought on the matter.

Mending gogo?

[1] Should we portray Healing Prayers Warriors in a good light, or convince people that it is inefficient/waste of energy/etc? -Auron 00:52, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

Get rid of it before I vomit. — Rogue 01:20, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

I hate these guides... Readem (talk*contribs) 02:20, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

I don't think Warrior/Monk should be portrayed in a positive -or- negative light. Simply list the advantages and disadvantages. The old version I found to be strongly anti-warrior/monk without mentioning any possible skills like Vigorous Spirit that can be highly helpful, especially in PvE. Since Auron has pointed out the one revert policy, I'll undo my second revert, but I think the article still needs changing.--Krin 07:50, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

Never mind. The article is anti-Healing Prayers for warriors.--Krin 07:54, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

What you added about hex and condition removal isn'y bad however. Well put. — Rogue 10:46, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

there's really nothing wrong with Warrior/Monk, but people should realize:

1. it's not the best use of attribute points. to get enough healing prayers to be useful, you almost have to cripple another line.
2. monk lines are very centric, where as tactics can provide party support and defensive messures as well.
3. Reapeatable res in PvE is the primary reason to do it.

bearing that in mind, i have, more then once, tanked shiro in Gate of Madness, alone, for more then long enough for the rest of my party to rally the gods, with nothing but Healing Breeze and Wild Blow. --Honorable Sarah 19:49, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

Nobody ever complains about the W/Mos with Mending Touch and a Hard Res, they complain about the ones with Healing Breeze and Mending. I "tanked" shiro similarly on a stance war with Healing Signet, wasting no points in healing prayers so my stances lasted longer and my attacks hit harder. I was not questioning if mending works; it's PvE. I was merely questioning whether we should put it in the guide, despite all the drawbacks to that tactic. -Auron 20:10, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

I think I made a lot of good points (though there are some I didn't get around too and stuff I'll probably change) In my attempt to repair Secondary combos. Look at the W/Mo section here: User:JediRogue/Profession Combos. There's a pretty thurough explanation of why mending is bad and ways to make W/Mo work. — Rogue 22:53, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

I agree. Add those notes.--Krin 00:27, 9 June 2007 (CDT)

W/A Why Not?

I see a lot more advantages with Warrior/Assassin mix than people give them credit for. Like 1st off the problem with assassin's is their lack of armor. You fix that problem with Warrior Armor. Next people complain about energy with warriors, cant really help that problem as a W/A you got enough energy for "1" chain but god damn if you cant stance your way to victory. Pick any attack stance with a high dagger mastery and you've got a nasty DPS tank. I'm building one! See you guys in the PvP ring I'll be the one owning your faces. Lates.

You're using a W/A for Assassin damage? You do realise Warrior skills and weapons are better for long term damage right? --Kale Ironfist 08:07, 26 June 2007 (CDT)

The ONLY advantage to a W/A is shadow stepping. Biggest problem with a Warrior is getting to the back line casters (If the enemy warrior is doing his job). Also, Shadow Stepping during GvG is advantagous to "jump" the wall, creating a huge advatage and crippling the enemy.--67.160.178.46 02:28, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

W/R note

Ok by using Warrior's Endurance you would gain no energy from bow attacks since bows are not melee, meaning you'd be wasting energy as there would be no energy gain, the only bonus to using a bow on Primary warriors is the small auto-sundering of strength when used with a cheap attack skill. Also a W/R taking a pet can often help body block foes trying to get to the mid-to-back line. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.29.90.166 (contribs) .

Sorry, it's been corrected. -- Gordon Ecker 07:29, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

W/R's with flourish and bow attacks? This article has just lost any semblance of use. -Auron 20:54, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

It had a semblance to begin with O.o? Readem (talk*contribs) 20:56, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Touché. -Auron 21:04, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

It's less crazy than putting points into Scythe Mastery so that you can use the Scythe Mastery Melee Attacks with a Warrior weapon. -- Gordon Ecker 21:16, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

I disagree, they are equally pointless. At least using a Scythe lets you build adrenaline on multiple targets (and hell, scythes were popular in screamway builds because of the aoe condition/fearme spam). Bows just suck. -Auron 21:31, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

If we put the bow note, I am adding Monks with dags. Readem (talk*contribs) 21:39, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Off you go. The Hobo 21:40, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Done. Gogogo. Readem (talk*contribs) 21:46, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Lol, Readem, take that off lol. —♥Jedi♥Rogue♥ 22:02, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

W/P

This is just a thought- I haven't tried it, and don't kill me if it's a bad idea. But for a warrior body-blocking other melee attackers, would Bladeturn Refrain be good to help the Warrior's tanking ability? Perhaps keeping it up with Watch Yourself?